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Talk:Imperius Curse
Used to make Harry bow? Was Voldemort really using this curse to make Harry bow, cause in the book it says that it felt like a invisible hand pressing down his back. That dosen't sound like the imperius curse. Jacce | Talk 04:40, 9 May 2009 (UTC) No it doesn't seem like the Imperius Curse, prehaps we should make a new article for it such as Invisable Hand spell. -- [[User:Madam Hooch|'Madam Hooch']] (''Which Broomstick'') :You're right, it doesn't sound like Imperius. Maybe there's some forced movement spell. I can't think of anything off the top of my head though, of something like that from the books. 11:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :Also, Harry looked as if he was in pain when Voldemort made him bow. --[[User:BarrettMark96|'BarretMark96']] ([[User talk:BarrettMark96|'Owl Post']]) 03:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Ya its not an Imperius...the effects and the feel are different. I would imagine it is some sort of charm... :I agree that the description in the book is inconsistent with the known effects of the Imperius Curse. Tarantallegra is a spell that forces the target to dance, so I'm guessing the spell Voldemort used on Harry is one that forces the target to bow. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 22:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Plot holes Viktor Krum's eyes are normally brown. In the maze, while he was under the Imperiuse, they were silver-ish. Yet, Barty Crouch Sr.'s eyes were never silver. --[[User:BarrettMark96|'BarretMark96']] ([[User talk:BarrettMark96|'Owl Post']]) 03:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Crouch wasn't imperiused in the movie. In the movie, Crouch Jr.'s escpae was unexplained, but Crouch Sr. didn't know about it. Crouch Jr. was with Voldemort and Wormtail before the Quidditch World Cup. Crouch Sr. didn't realize that Crouch Jr. was free until he saw "Moody" lick his lips like Jr. did. Croch Jr. then murdered Crouch Sr., without ever using the imperius curse.Icecreamdif 03:17, October 28, 2010 (UTC) Typos? Misconceptions? #1: Known Victims I thought he used the Killing Curse. But that may have been only in the movie (non-canon) - could someone check this? He used Stupefy not Avada Kedavra on Viktor Krum because Dumbledore uses ennervate to wake him up CygnusBlackI #2: Other Known Uses *Tom Marvolo Riddle used it on Barty Crouch Sr. to make sure Harry Potter won the Triwizard Tournament and got transported to Little Hangleton, via the Triwizard Cup, which was really a Portkey. I thought Barty Crouch Jr. made it a portkey? How did Voldemort use it on someone if he wasn't "alive" at that time? Is this suppose to be Wormtail's doing? Did Sr. make it a portkey? I would also like some clarification on this too. Thanks :) Skeleton 85 16:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC) earlier mentions? Wasn't this mentioned in either earlier films or books, like in the first film/book when Hagrid is telling Harry about the first war, about how some only fought on the DE side cuz they imperiused or something to that effect? --BachLynn (Accio!) 18:05, January 1, 2011 (UTC) Came here wondering the same thing. I was looking through my book just now and noticed that Hagrid says: "People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances." Was wondering if this could be considered an "indirect mention". AlastorMoody (talk) 22:41, June 20, 2015 (UTC) Do people remember what they do under the Imperius curse? Source? "The Imperius Curse was invented during the early middle ages by dark witches or wizards. The curse was created for the coercion and brainwashing of others into slavery." Is there a source for this (the date and the purpose)? Something Rowling posted once, maybe? Or where does this come from? 13:42, November 16, 2012 (UTC) Source of Description I'd really like to know where Rowling gets her description from. To quote: "It was the most wonderful feeling. Harry felt a floating sensation as every thought and worry in his head was wiped gently away, leaving nothing but a vague, untraceable happiness. He stood there feeling immensely relaxed, only dimly aware of everyone watching him." I jawdropped when I read this. This is EXACTLY what it feels like to be controlled under hypnosis (source: personal experience). I wonder if she spoke to a professional hypnotist to get input on this. Mmxbass (talk) 18:56, August 2, 2013 (UTC) Memory? Do people have any memory of their deeds once the curse is lifted (e.g. if Hannah Abbott do not hate her got cursed and killed some people, would she remember once the curse was lifted?) Puppies, kittens, and the power of love! I'm Glitter Peace! (talk) 08:01, May 26, 2016 (UTC) :Harry and his classmates seem to recall what they did when Fake!Moody used it on them. HTH HAND Phil | Talk 08:58, May 26, 2016 (UTC) I do not remember any of them but Harry(and he broke it so doesn't count) remembering their experiences; only rack others. CygnusBlackI :Ah. Okay. Puppies, kittens, and the power of love! I'm Glitter Peace! (talk) 09:08, May 26, 2016 (UTC) Termination and Fears? Hi! I have two questions: #Will victims still possess the same fears they had before Imperius Curse? #Is there any way to terminate the curse without killing anyone? Those are my questions. Llama llama llama! (talk) 00:38, May 27, 2016 (UTC) : The answer to the second is "yes." Since the students stopped being under the curse and were not killed (unless we have some very strange "fan theory") it is obvious the curse can be terminated. The answer to the first is more complicated. They would still have the fear, but the curse would overcome those fears. The best example of that is Broderick Bode and his actions to retrieve the prophecy while under the curse; he resisted the curse because he knew and was afraid of what would happen to him if he touched the prophecy, but the curse forced him to do it anyway. Wva (talk) 20:36, April 14, 2018 (UTC) Deathly Hallows incantation I don't know about everyone else, and I'm not trying to be mean here, but whenever I watch Deathly Hallows Part 2, I always heard them say Imperio and not Imperius. It may be the background noise and the fact that Harry's casting is whispered that others hear Imperius, but I hear Imperio. TheTARDISLegilimens (talk) 19:14, April 14, 2018 (UTC) : That is correct. It is the Imperius curse and the incantation is Imperio. In Latin, imperius is the noun and imperio is the vocative form of the verb. The "vocative form" of a verb is somewhat unique to Latin and is used to give "command" to a verb. At least if I remember my Latin correctly. Wva (talk) 20:28, April 14, 2018 (UTC) :: I know that, I’m just wondering why everyone else hears Imperius in the film when the incantation is Imperio and the characters clearly say so in the film. TheTARDISLegilimens (talk) 11:51, April 15, 2018 (UTC) Memories and the Imperius Curse In Hogwarts Mystery, when Ben attacked the MC and was defeated by Rakepick, Ben was knocked unconcious, and when he came to, he was apparently no longer under the control of whoever had imperiused him. (I say imperiused because that's the only spell depicted in canon that can control people like Ben described), meaning that loss of consciousness might "restarts" your mind and snaps you out of the curse Also when that happened to Ben, he had no immediate idea of where he was, how he got there or anything else he had done while controlled, only later did vauge recollections, such as recalling he adorned the robes, that he spoke to one of the Weasleys and was questioned by Rakepick, etc, just before the incident, come back to him. I know Hogwarts Mysteries are not the best canonical source, but on Pottermore, it likewise says that Pius Thicknesse's time as Minister for Magic was, and I quote: "Omitted from most official records, as he was under the Imperius Curse for his entire term of office, and unconscious of anything that he was doing". Ben was also ''unconcious of anything he was doing, and confused and disoriented just after "waking up" from the curse and only started to remember vaugely after some time had passed. Could we make some minor changes to reflect this? Maester Martin (talk) 16:29, September 17, 2018 (UTC) :That does not match the experience of being Imperiused, as given on chapter 15 of , or elsewhere in canon. For example, Barty Crouch Junior had every recollection of what happened while his father placed him under the Imperius Curse ( , chapter 35). Could it simply be that Ben's amnesia was due to his being attacked by Rakepick and not due to the Imperius Curse? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| '''Seth Cooper' ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 21:28, September 17, 2018 (UTC) In the case of Harry Potter, which of course is the most descriptive example of how the curse feels like available, we are talking about an individual who possessed a pronounced and innate aptitude for resisting it, to the point where he nearly shrugged it off the very first time he was subjected to it. Since the curse is supposed to place you under the caster's complete control, it goes without saying that the experience of resisting the curse would be very different ifrom succumbing to the complete ''control of someone casting the Imperius Curse, who, if Rowling's description of Pius Thicknesse, apparently does not have this "dim awareness" Harry had. When everyhing is said and done, since Rowling herself said Thicknesse was unconcious of anything he was doing while imperiused, and Ben appear to have been imperiused and was unconcious of anything he was doing, only for vauge recollectionst to come back to him once he was released from the curse, I'd say that since Pottermore is the more recent source, we should stick to that, which I also believe is consistent with wiki policy? There is nothing really contradictory between them, if you think about it: If you resist/is strong-minded enough to ''be capable of resisting, you mgiht have a dim awareness of what is going on, like Harry does, and if you are completely ''under the control of someone controlling you with the Imperius Curse, you are unconcious of anything you are doing while you were controlled, but in both cases, you will remember it after the fact. This appear tp be because once you are 100% controlled, you can see and hear, but the curse stop you from processing new information at the time to prevent interference with the control exerted on you. Like you make new memories, but they are inaccessable to you until either access is allowed by the caster, or when the curse no longer interfering with your mind. Maester Martin (talk) 23:36, September 17, 2018 (UTC) BUMP. Maester Martin (talk) 14:52, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :We are not at any point told if Thicknesse did not have "dim awareness" of his surroundings while under the curse. A conscious action is one carried out with critical awareness (as in, with will, thought, or design), and not necessarily one done while in a stupor — and the ''Goblet of Fire description of how the Imperius Curse is felt very much points to it stripping the victim of their critical ability (From Goblet of Fire: "Harry felt a floating sensation as every thought and worry in his head was wiped gently away, leaving nothing but a vague, untraceable happiness. He stood there feeling immensely relaxed, only dimly aware of everyone watching him.", chapter 15; "his mind had been wiped of all thought... Ah, it was bliss, not to think, it was as though he were floating, dreaming...", chapter 34 — note that both of these descriptions are that of the effects of the curse on Harry before he actively starts to resist it). :Note also that the wording on Pottermore is that Thicknesse was "unconscious of anything that he was doing" (emphasis mine), not that he was left unconscious of anything he had done. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 18:23, December 21, 2018 (UTC) What we're told, is that Pius Thicknesse was 'unconcious of anything that he was doing' whle ''under the influence of the Imperius Curse. Just like ''Ben was unconcious of anything he was doing, (and it is now confirmed through data mining that both Ben, and the second attacker, whose identity I won't spoil lest you agree that I do, was imperiused), but then it came back to him after he was freed from the curse. In short: Unconcious in the moment, but not afterwards, whereupon some of the memories of what you did while under the Imperius Curse resurfaces. Also, before I forget, but completely unrelated: What do we do about this ? Don't we already have a page for that spell with a very different effect? (Thunderstorm, I think?), maybe that spell's effect change upon the intent of the caster? Maester Martin (talk) 18:55, December 21, 2018 (UTC) ::That's Meteolojinx, and you're quite right, it's off-topic; next time take it to my talk page. ::As I said, being unconscious of one's actions is not quite the same as being unconscious tout court. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 19:21, December 21, 2018 (UTC) Could you provide the distinction? From where I am standing, it would appear either of them is true of the Imperius Curse, depending on your natural aptitude for resisting it, or as seem to be the case of Thicknesse and Ben, lack thereof. Maester Martin (talk) 19:39, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :The distinction is that being unconscious would mean loss of all cognition; being unconscious of one's actions suggests the state of extreme suggestibility described in canon. At any rate, I've lost sight of what concrete alterations to the article you're proposing. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 19:55, December 21, 2018 (UTC) That depending on the person that are being imperiused, and how strong-minded they are, some victims might initally be completely unaware of what he or she did while they were being controlled when they are finally free of the curse, but that once freed, some vauge recollections from that time will come back to them shortly thereafter. Maester Martin (talk) 20:07, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :Source? There's no indication of that anywhere. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 21:49, December 21, 2018 (UTC) Hogwarts Mystery and, arguably, Pottermore. And even if you only recognize the former, just because Ben's and, arguably Thicknesse's, experiences of being imperiused differed from Harry's, it don't contradict ''it. Maester Martin (talk) 21:55, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :''Arguably is the keyword. The only person ever to have been mentioned to be at any point unaware of what they did while under the curse is Ben... and that was right after he was assaulted. Is there any conclusive evidence linking Ben's confusion to the Imperius Curse and not to how he was attacked by Rakepick? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 22:23, December 21, 2018 (UTC) Well, the fact that Patricia Rakepick leaves the choice of where Ben should go, (Dumbledore's office, Filch's office or the Hospital Wing) after he comes around), which clarifies that Ben had not been too badly hurt, because the point of bringing Ben to either of those places were to contain him until they could find out what were going on, not ''to get him immediate help because Rakepick had roughed him up too much. Not to mention that there are at no point any mention, be it from Madam Pomfrey, Ben or anyone else, even as much as remotely indicated that he suffered some kind of serious head injury and/or had a concocion after he hit the wall. Maester Martin (talk) 22:52, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :And you say that he ''must be perfectly alright after being hit with a Blasting Curse, thrown across the whole courtyard head-first into a stone buttress, and staying unresponsive (perfectly silent and still) for quite some time? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 01:10, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :And all of this, I should add by the way, without it even being confirmed it was indeed the Imperius Curse? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 01:13, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::Oh, I never said he was 'perfectly alright', only that we were given no reason in canon to think that the amnesia was caused by being knocked unconcious. Only that his initial unawareness of what he had been doing while cursed was consistent with how Thicknesse was described on Pottermore. ::Also - it is confrimed, I told you, we've found out through data mining. Maester Martin (talk) 02:28, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :From where I'm standing, we are given no reason to think that the amnesia was caused by the curse. And you told me no such thing. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 02:32, December 22, 2018 (UTC) I did, actually, if you look fourteen posts up above this one. Maester Martin (talk) 02:51, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :So you did, I stand corrected. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 03:02, December 22, 2018 (UTC) Want links? Maester Martin (talk) 03:23, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :Not really, I was just concerned you might be jumping to conclusions regarding the use of the curse. It still doesn't prove Imperio induces ammesia, though. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 03:53, December 22, 2018 (UTC) If the amnesia was caused by a head injury, we'd know about it. Creators of fiction don't actively seek to decieve their audience. Maester Martin (talk) 05:18, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :Argument from ignorance. Care to provide any canonical evidence to substantiate that? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 07:51, December 22, 2018 (UTC) First off, no, it isn't, as my sentiment comes from an understanding of reality, not an assertion of authority, but that aside - your request makes no sense. Are you actually asking me to use fiction that reality is true? How can I use canon to prove that than OOU fact of how fiction is structured to prove that it's true creators of fiction don't actively seek to trick to their audiences? Maester Martin (talk) 15:03, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::What's an argument from ignorance is "if the amnesia was caused by a head injury, we'd know about it". The rest is just you trying to shoehorn in a fundamentally flawed deduction. To not mention something is not to deceive anyone, and if you feel deceived when a creator of fiction fails to provide detail, then perhaps it's because you're assuming things they didn't tell you to be true. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 16:20, December 22, 2018 (UTC) So - half-truths are not deceptive? Maester Martin (talk) 17:14, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :You are the one seeing half-truths, because you see fit to assume whatever you want whenever something is not explained as thoroughly as you'd wish. If something simply is not explained, then it simply wan't explained and we don't know. We've went through this loads of times by now, it's tiresome having to explain this again and again. :I think I'll leave it at that. No canon backing, no source, doesn't go in the article. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:34, December 22, 2018 (UTC) Do what you want, Seth, it's your wiki. Maester Martin (talk) 17:50, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :It is not. And what an attitude. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 18:22, December 22, 2018 (UTC) Wait - didn't you create the wiki in the first place? O.o Maester Martin (talk) 18:49, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :No, I did not. And if I had, that would be neither here nor there; you seem to be missing the point of a wiki entirely: it's a collaborative effort. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 18:57, December 22, 2018 (UTC) Huh... My bad then. What about a wiki being a collaborated effort prevents it from falling under the purview of the one who made it? Maester Martin (talk) 19:12, December 22, 2018 (UTC)